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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  August 2, 2012 2:00am-3:00am EDT

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economy that is growing more quickly than it would under barack obama. specifically, 4% a year under mitt romney. that is nearly triple the rate of president obama's most recent quarter. and just to make it very clear, the last year in which this economy grew 4% or more was the year 2000. the tax policy center, again, this report, says, no way. i wanted to get to the bottom of it. we enlisted our strike team. we got five very long and detailed replies from some of the top tax attorneys, professors and economists in this country. on the key question of whether the tax cuts mitt romney promises will get the economy growing fast enough to generate all that revenue, new york university's daniel shaviro told us, quote, there really is no conceivable way that gdp growth can make a significant short-term difference to the study's finding. now, conrad dequadros says, the romney's plan is a far more efficient tax plan than our current one and cutting marginal rates and eliminating deductions would boost economic growth and
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raise tax revenue. our experts said, we can quibble with some of the specifics in this report, but overall, they were not able to dismiss its conclusions. the bottom line is this -- we need more detail from mitt and we tried to get it. dean hubbard was helpful on e-mail. the romney campaign, though, was not able to make anyone available to go through the crucial numbers and get the bottom-line facts and resolve this. for example, they could have explained that, yes, everybody, some people are going to pay more in taxes under our plan because right now, half of americans pay no federal income taxes at all. if we broaden the base, that means some people who are paying nothing will pay something, sure, that's a tax increase, at least in the first year. so, yes, the tax policy center analysis is incomplete. it's imperfect. but to score a knockout, like sylvester stallone in "rocky iii," that would be a knockout. romney needs to get the $360
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billion without raising effective taxes on a whole lot of people. so he could be the victorious one because here's the math on votes. if you're raising the tax burdens on 95% of american, you are not likely to win the job of president of the united states of america. joining us is stephen moore and matt bennett. great to see both of you tonight. president obama saw this today, obviously it played to exactly what he wanted to hear. here's what he had to say at a campaign stop. >> just today an independent, nonpartisan organization, they crunched all the numbers. they looked at his plan. they found that if governor romney wants to keep his word and pay for this plan of -- this $5 trillion tax cut, the only way to do it is to cut tax breaks that you, middle class families, depend on.
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>> he needs to fight back, don't you agree, to just lay it out more clearly? how can he do that? >> he can't allow the liberal groups like the brookings institute, to say this is a tax increase on anyone. as you know, the centerpiece of the plan is to cut the tax rates across the board by some 10% or 15%. >> on the marginal rates. >> i think that grows the economy. i'm a supply sider. i think lower rates provide more growth for the economy. i don't think it's unreasonable to think with this and other growth policies we could have a 4% growth rate which does generate a lot of revenue over the next -- maybe not in the short term over but the next decade or so, you get a lot of windfall revenues from that kind of growth rate. where i will fault mitt romney is i agree with you, i don't think he's done a good enough job of explaining, look, we're going to have to close some of these loopholes, get rid of some of these special interest
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deductions in the tax code. about half of those revenues lost from all those tax deductions, those are taken by the people in the top 3%. >> fair point. that's right. it's interesting when you look at the numbers, one of our top tax attorneys pointed out, if you get rid of the mortgage interest deduction, charitable deduction, state and local taxes, this will upset some middle class families, but it does help the wealthy in this country, you more than make up for the $360 billion. in fact, you get $431 billion. he has money to spare. >> the problem, though, is that mitt romney treats taxes like they're some sort of state secret. he won't release his own income taxes and he won't release details on the tax plan. so your experts and the folks at brookings had to make assumptions that they're not sure about as it relates to mitt romney's tax plan because he hasn't made clear what he intends to do.
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but the assumptions used in the study you cite are very fair ones. he said he wants to stay revenue-neutral, as you point out. he said he wants to lower the marginal tax rate, to get rid of certain deductions. so they conclude and your experts back them up, what that means is the rich get a pretty big tax cut and the middle class and lower income folks get a pretty big increase in taxes. >> stephen moore, i'm also curious where you get the confidence -- i'm glad to see it. i think everyone's glad to hear it. but the last time this economy grew at 4% annually, which is what glenn hubbard says they're expecting in year one of mitt romney, was in 2000. seems rather aggressive. >> it is. but this has been an extremely deep recession, one of the deepest since the great depression. and we've had no recovery to speak of. when you lose 10% of gdp like we did, you boom out of these things. we haven't had that boom yet. i think when you take into account -- under reagan at this stage of the expansion, we
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didn't have 4% growth. as you know, we had 8% growth. i think we can aspire to those high rates of growth. i do think fixes the taxes -- the other point the two of you leave out is if republicans win this election, in fact, they're going to have a vote on this tomorrow about expedited procedures to move next year right to tax reform, to blow up the whole tax code and start over, with some of those eliminations and deductions you talked about, with getting the rates down. i think everybody and all sides -- i think that everybody agrees that is we can do much better than the current tax code that we have now that exports jobs. >> can anyone make the point that i am going to raise taxes on a lot of people because a lot of people are not paying taxes right now or is it a political non-starter? >> of course they couldn't. that's why he's secretive about exactly what his plan would do. and it's why glenn hubbard has to be circumspect about what the plan would do. he can't say what the details are, because the details are politically devastating for romney.
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>> thanks very much to both of you. we appreciate it. check out the report yourself. go ahead and let us know what you think and what you think mitt romney should do next. "outfront" after this, as chick-fil-a faces backlash over its coming out on gay marriage, amtrak rolls out ads as gay couples ride the pride, they say. and the american role in syria, we've got an exclusive report. the president could be supporting the rebels. and penn state says it's not going to use state funds to pay a $60 million fine related to the jerry sandusky scandal. does that add up? we follow the money. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs.
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our second story "outfront," on the day when chick-fil-a is back in the news, crowds of people showing their support for chick-fil-a's president dan cathy in his stance against same-sex marriage. they were all out and about today. the other side is having a kiss-in later this week. so chick-fil-a will be the center of lots of argument this week. but today, this is what we saw. two new ads from amtrak. the theme of the ads is "ride with pride," the name of amtrak's new advertising campaign aimed at gay and lesbian families. you've got two dads and a child and then you have others with two moms and a child featuring same-sex couples with children. the ads say that childrens ages 2 to 15 get a 50% discount when traveling with an adult. what's interesting about this
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timing is it's the first time amtrak has included gay families in its advertising material. amtrak is a government subsidized company. amtrak received $1.4 billion this year from taxpayers. are they using your tax dollars to push what some may believe is a hot button social issue. that's fair to say. some people may agree with the point of view, others may not. "outfront" tonight, john avlon, michael waldman and hogan gidley. hogan, let me start with you. amtrak says the ads are not politically motivated. >> of course. >> of course i'm starting with you on this one. do you buy it? >> that's right. i wouldn't say that. people advertise for different reasons. obviously places like target and starbucks have been using homosexual couples in their advertising for years. there's really no departure from where a lot of these companies are going. we'll let the market decide. the big problem here is using taxpayer dollars to do it and to make a political statement. that's what's going to turn
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people on to this topic and make people angry and come out against it, i would imagine, from the right. i ma chick-fil-a's a private business. they can do what they want to do. amtrak obviously using taxpayer dollars here, that's going to be a serious issue for the right and i imagine amtrak will become somewhat of a rallying cry or a whipping boy, if you will, for our side and we'll come out and try to show people that we disagree with that type of advertising and that type of use of taxpayer dollars. >> john? >> there's a fundamental difference. chick-fil-a is a private company, as hogan put out. people can protest the beliefs of the individual of running that company. but it's a private company. fundamentally, it's different with amtrak because you could argue they're trying to push a social agenda or you could say they're taking a stand against discrimination. that is a role entirely consistent with a government subsidized entity. it is consistent to send a message of inclusion and support for civil rights. this is a lot bigger than politics and social issues. it's not an apple-to-apples comparison as all.
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>> in fact, conservatives for years have urged amtrak to behave more like a private business. now it is, marketing its services to consumers. when private businesses began including african-americans in ads in the early 1960s, that was considered shocking. now we would say, of course they will. this marks a real tectonic shift in american social thinking and business is ahead of the curve. >> the timing, though, does seem -- a president comes out. how long does it take to get an ad and put it together? six weeks ago he comes out and says i'm for gay marriage. and now amtrak comes out with "ride with pride". >> you never know. i don't think anyone's ever accused amtrak of moving so quickly. >> oh, that is a fair point. >> wow. >> that is a fair point. hogan, what do you think about the point that john avlon made,
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which is it would be consistent with a government agency to be pushing something that is civil rights and nondiscrimination targeted which some people feel this issue very much is? >> right. i understand the point, i just think in this politically charged environment we live in, this is kind of a gift for the right in the sense that we can come out after this hard, as an abuse of taxpayer dollars and i imagine people will do that as we move into the fall and as people start paying attention to these types of things. >> john and michael are both champing at the bit. >> hogan, do you think they should? as a political strategist -- >> i don't think that -- no, no, i don't think it's necessarily a good thing for them to come out and waste time and energy talking about stuff like this at this point. i do think, though, there will be a sect on the right who will be very excited about coming out after -- i use that -- excuse the phrase, but coming out after this advertising plan that they've put out.
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but i don't think it's necessarily all that important at this point. i think that this has been going on for a long time with other companies. obviously they've used taxpayer dollars here so people can use it as a whipping boy. but we'll try to focus on the economy and not the side issues heading into the fall. >> i think that will be difficult because this isn't saying pro-marriage or anti-marriage. this is normal american life, something to celebrate. you have to kind of really ramp up the negativity and hatred to attack these ads. >> what they're advertising is kids ride half off when they're traveling with a parent. this is not a special promotion >> they are saying ride with pride, though. >> but it's not a special for same-sex kids -- >> no, it's for any adult with any child. >> but negative and hatred are two different things. if i want to come out against it, that's one thing. it's the same thing. you call dan cathy homophobic. he says, i'm for marriage between one man and one woman. that's not hatred. he just comes out and says i'm
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nor marriage for. >> sometimes negative and hatred do overlap, you do agree? >> of course, of course. >> that's a big concession when it comes to some of these protests -- against pro marriage equality organizations or institutions. >> hatred is negative. >> yes, it is. >> marriage between one man and one woman, rick santorum did the same thing. it doesn't mean he hates gay people. it just means he doesn't believe marriage is between two men or two women. it's one man, one woman. that's a thousands of years belief. >> thanks to all three of you. i must say i gave amtrak too much credit. and you were correct. amtrak sent us a statement -- i'm sorry, amtrak. but you asked for this. this is not a social agenda, the current ads are part of a campaign that amtrak is using to
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target a lgtb community since 2010. it took them two years. maybe that's why they lost half a billion dollars. breaking news on the u.s. role in syria and president obama supporting the rebels. the u.s. post office had until midnight to pay a $5 billion tab. what's going to happen when they fail to pay it? you do what you do... because it matters. at hp we don't just believe in the power of technology. we believe in the power of people when technology works for you. to dream. to create. to work. if you're going to do something. make it matter. do you have any idea where you're going ? wherever the wind takes me.
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our third story "outfront," breaking news, cnn has learned that president obama is authorizing covert american support for the rebels in syria. this comes as at least 170 people were killed in the streets today, according to an opposition group. it's important to always add that caveat. elise labott is "outfront" tonight. what kind of support has the president authorized? >> reporter: well, erin, we understand what it's called is a covert finding, an intelligence finding, which basically allows the cia and other u.s. intelligence agencies to provide support for the rebels. we have to be careful to note, this is not military assistance in the traditional sense of weapons. the u.s. not ready to arm the rebels, leaving that to allies like saudi arabia and qatar. but the u.s. could provide clandestine assistance and intelligence.
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we understand this could have been in place for months already. and we understand the u.s. has been help saudi arabia and qatar vet some of these groups. one of the complaints is the u.s. doesn't know who it would be arming. they're trying to find how to get the weapons into the right hands so countries like saudi arabia and qatar can do something like that. and also providing intelligence on what kind of troop movement syrian troops are making so that opposition rebels are not found in a difficult situation, erin. >> elise, thank you very much. so many report that is al qaeda has infiltrated some of those groups. arming the rebels in syria is not a simple and clear-cut thing. the federal reserve says it's not going to give us any more. no more drugs from ben. they come "outfront." and how specially trained tsa officers rescued a kidnapped woman who was passing through an airport.
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we start the second half of our show with stories we care about, where we focus on our reporting from the front lines. first, a maryland man allegedly who made threats against his workplace has been charged. state officials tell us that
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neil prescott has been charged with misuse of a telephone, which is a misdemeanor. according to local police, prescott allegedly told a supervisor over the phone, i'm a joker, i'm going to load my guns and blow everybody off. you may recall the police chief came on this show and said that the man had 25 guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition. he said he intended to make formal charges. some may be disappointed that they were this few. he will be formally arrested once he's released from the hospital. he's undergoing mental evaluation now. if convicted the maximum sentence for that charge is three years in jail, a fine of $500, or both. secretary of defense leon panetta is in israel tonight. he visited the iron dome. it's basically a missile defense shield. he had meetings with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. a big topic of discussion was iran. here's what benjamin netanyahu had to say about the need to do something about iran soon.
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>> right now, the iranian regime believes that the international community does not have the will to stop its nuclear program. this must change and it must change quickly because time to resolve this issue peacefully is running out. >> as a response, panetta says the united states, quote, will not allow iran to develop a nuclear weapon, period. the secretary of state, hillary clinton, has started a major tour of a crucial continent, africa. she's going to be visiting many countries. she starts in senegal. she's going to be talking about economic growth and also talking about democracy. democracy is a crucial issue, especially in mali, where al qaeda is rising. the secretary addressed that during a speech today. >> by some estimates, this could set back mali's economic progress by nearly a decade. it certainly created a vacuum in the north in which rebellion and extremism have spread,
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threatening not only people's lives and the treasures of the past but the stability of the region. >> it's a fair assessment. other stops on the secretary's trip include south sudan, uganda and kenya. customers of mf global who lost their money will likely get most of it back. that's what trustees overseeing the process told the senate agriculture committee today. they said that customers in this country have gotten 80% back of what they lost. that's good news but we watched the hearing. and there was outrage that no one from mf global has been charged with anything yet, including its famous ceo jon corzine, former a senator, governor of new jersey and ceo of goldman sachs. it's been 363 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? that brings me to our fourth story "outfront," your move, congress.
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the fed today announced it won't take any further action to stimulate the economy, which puts the ball back in congress' court. to do something about the fiscal cliff and the debt crisis in this country. and yet just two days before lawmakers take a month-long vacation, our elected officials spent the day holding dueling and symbolic votes on the bush era tax cuts, knowing full well that if you want to extend them in full, that won't pass with democrats and if you want to just extend them for people who make less than $250,000, that won't pass with republicans. so they spent a lot of time voting on nothing. fed chairman ben bernanke has made a point of saying he can do only so much and congress needs to act. >> the most effective way that the congress could help to support the economy right now would be to work to address the nation's fiscal challenges. i think it's important that in the short term that congress work effectively to address the debt limit and the fiscal cliff. just delaying everything, just saying we're not going to do it, put it off a year, i think that
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would be a very bad outcome. >> "outfront" tonight, republican senator pat toomey of pennsylvania, a member of the super committee, which failed to come up with a deal last summer to save us from this crisis. i spoke to him moments ago and started by asking him to respond to ben bernanke's very clear statement that congress is who must act. >> i think the problems that affect our economy are not fundamentally monetary in nature. so i'm not in favor of the fed going through yet another round of what they call quantitative easing which really is a way of printing money. the fed's already bought two-thirds of the deficit that we were in last year. i think that's a dangerous policy. i think the problems are fiscal. that is to say, the government's spending too much money. i think it's a threat of a huge tax increase, that's a real problem we should address. and i think it's regulatory. we have an avalanche of new regulations preventing job growth. so i would prefer congress act. unfortunately, as you know, we
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appear to be locked in this gridlock. >> definitely appear to be locked. just looking at the past couple of weeks, a lot of time has been spent in the house and in the senate. with each party voting on its tax policy, a tax policy that they know is dead on arrival with the other party, the president's democrats saying, we're going to vote a plan who everyone who makes over $250,000, the tax rates go back up. republicans voting for a plan to keep tax rates lower for everyone. that's a lot of time wasted, though, isn't it? neither one of those blanket points of view are going to prevail? >> well that, appears to be the case now. but of course, as you know, 44 democratic senators and the democratic president of the united states less than two years ago voted to extend all the current tax rates because the president argued at the time, the last thing you want to do is raise taxes in a weak economy. well, today we have a still weaker economy. and so the logic still prevails.
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and i'm disappointed that the democrats have done this complete reversal for apparently political motivation, frankly. i think what we should do is at least one-year extension of current rates with instructions to the committees to enact pro-growth tax reform. >> the president has, to be fair, he's cut agencies. he has put a lot of things forth on that front. but just assume for a second that the president wins. you end up in the same sort of gridlock that you're in right now. are you then going to accept that an increase in revenue, i.e., some people paying more taxes than they're paying now, is just inevitable? you're willing to make that deal as part of a grand bargain? >> i'm not going to negotiate now on the deal for a hypothetical outcome of the election. if you recall back on the super committee, i was the one that put revenue on the table, not because revenue is fiscally or mathematically necessary, but it was a huge concession i was willing to make because i knew it was politically necessary because the other side is insist tent on raising somebody's taxes.
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i hope we can avoid that because it will do damage to the economy. what's broken, what needs to be fixed, our entitlement programs that are out of control. in the last ten years, federal spending has doubled. we can't continue spending at this pace. that's the problem. you could double all income taxes overnight and you would still be running a budget deficit. we can't tax our way out of this, we have to restructure the programs that are broken. >> it's a fair point but it does seem to fly in the face of something else you said before. you don't want the defense cuts. but that's an area where federal spending has surged, thanks to the wars in iraq and afghanistan. we're at record levels for defense spending. it's an area that seems ripe for the cutting. even with the sequestration, we're not cutting as much as george h.w. bush and about the same as ronald reagan did. how can you say you want cuts in spending and try to fight against the defense cuts? >> first of all, i've supported the premise that the pentagon budget has to be on the table. can't be sacrosanct. however, providing for national
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security is arguably the number one obligation of the federal government. actually, i think it is. so what we ought to ask ourselves is what does it cost to execute that mission of providing national security? and whatever that is, that's what we have to pay. >> as a matter of principle, i've been asking this question to everyone, though. when you look at the fiscal 2012 actual spending by the omb in this country, we spent more on defense than we spent on health care, medicare and medicaid. is that something sort of as a moral question that you think is fair? it would seem that economic security and health security is an important part of what makes a country strong enough to have the defense that we have. >> i kind of would look at it the other way around. for most of the history of the this country, we had a defense budget. we didn't spend anything on those things. they didn't exist because it was always acknowledged from the formation of the country that the first obligation of the federal government is to defend the american people. >> right. but in terms of the concept that if your economy isn't growing and people aren't better off than their parents were, that
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you don't have a fundamentally strong homeland economically, what do you have to defend? >> well, that's a valid point. ultimately, our national security rests on our economic security. >> senator toomey, final question, do you have night where is you wake up in a cold sweat, worried about your vote on that super committee? because it was your committee that has put us in this position. >> and as you know, erin, i was the one person who put together a comprehensive proposal that included new revenue, which was excruciatingly difficult for me to do, met the democratic demand for revenue halfway, asked for the most modest spending cut, would have reached our goal of the $1.2 trillion, which was the statutory goal. all the republicans agreed to support my proposal, despite how difficult that was. and the democrats walked away from the table. so i have a clear conscience about the work that i put into the super committee. >> senator, thanks very much. good to see you. >> thanks for having me. now two tsa agents at miami airport rescued a woman from two
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kidnappers as she was checking in for her flight. let's show you the surveillance video. this happened on july 5th. basically as you can see, we're zoning in on what you should watch. there were behavior detection officers for the tsa. they spot add 25-year-old woman who was trembling, apparently she was trying to hide facial injuries at a ticket counter. after separating her from her travel companions, they learned that she had been beaten. she said she was being held against her will. "outfront" tonight, mike hatfield. thanks for coming "outfront" and appreciate your taking the time. what are these behavior detection agents? how did they pick this woman out? a lot of people look upset, disturbed, nervous, going through security. >> well, one could argue the stressful environment of an airport can cause that in a lot of people. but what they're trained to do and they do receive a very rigorous training protocol before they get certified to do
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this job, they look for indicators, both voluntary actions, involuntary actions, facial gestures, facial motions and a wide variety of body language, if you will, as they practice this behavior detection science. in this case, there was a rather overt initial indicator, the woman was, as you said, trying to hide her face, which seemed that they watched her a little bit longer. as it progressed, the point value of her situation increased pretty rapidly. and it wasn't long before they called in local law enforcement and the rest is in the police report. >> what do you mean point value? is that a specific term where you look at certain things and ascribe certain points -- >> the practice of behavior detection, the officers practice a mental mapping of individual behavior. so if somebody was just covering their face, say, or looking nervous, that in itself wouldn't take them to a police referral. they take it in steps so that they have a way of doing a detailed evaluation.
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and in this mental process when they get to a certain threshold, then it's time to refer to police. >> have you busted, for lack of a better word, this sort of thing before? >> this is the first kidnapping that has been thwarted in this airport and across the country, as far as i know. but i can tell you that as far as other crime, other criminal activities, it's been sort of a collateral benefit of this program. their focus is very narrowly on terror behavior, individual that is may be planning or in the process of conducting a terror attack. but in that practice, they do get sort of a collateral catch, if you will, of other people in this range from money launderers, drug smuggler, even child pornographers, other people involved in criminal behavior. there is a parallel terrorism as a crime. those indicators that would give away a terrorist plot have in fact given away other criminal acts.
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>> i understand what happened here is in dispute. whether it was a dispute between the individuals, something with a boyfriend -- it's unclear exactly what happened. but that's not your group's job, right? if someone's there against their will, it doesn't matter to you what was going on behind the scenes? >> right. the important part here -- it's the hand-off. the tsa officers, the behavior detection officers, have a very defined job, they have a narrow focus. the way the program is structured, when it gets to a certain level where either a crime is possibly be committed or even worse, if it is an act of terror, we partner very closely with local law enforcement agencies across the country. it's a very successful model we've developed over the last ten years. that handoff is a critical point and element of the program. that's what these officers did here in miami and to the extent that it helped this woman in distress and may have saved her life, it was a success. >> mark, thanks again. we appreciate it. >> thanks very much.
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we have breaking news just crossing right now. cnn affiliate kmgh is reporting the psychiatrist who was treating the alleged gunman in the colorado movie theater shooting was so concerned about his behavior that she notified the university of colorado behavioral evaluation and threat assessment team. this is really, really important information because sources are saying that dr. lynne fenton, the one who was treating james holmes this spring, had concerns in early june that he could be a threat to other people. that was six weeks before the shooting. she contacted several members of the threat assessment team in separate conversations. again, according to our affiliate kmgh, sources say officials at the university never contacted aurora police, though, before the july 20th killings. that makes this story even more tragic. "outfront" next, following the money in the penn state sex scandal.
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the u.s. post office has until midnight to pay the federal government $5 billion or default. unless congress magically comes up with the legislation, that's what's going to happen. the post office says, sure, we're going to miss our payment today and guess what? we're going to miss a $5.6 billion additional payment in september. for most of us, because of the magic of math, it doesn't matter until the world falls apart. you're still going to get your mail. people will still be paid, for now. but if congress doesn't act, the postal service will run out of money for operations in mid october. the senate tried. they passed a bill back in april. it doesn't do much in terms of reform. but it got some of the near-term problems. but all it did is kick the can down the road. the house has acted on other post office bills, which is our number tonight, 26. >> that's how many laws the 112th congress has passed that rename post offices. and now to outer circle where we reach out to sources around the world. and tonight we begin in uganda where tonight there's been an ebola outbreak.
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>> reporter: i'm here in western uganda right behind me is the hospital where they are treating patients who have ebola. thr several layers of protection between where i'm standing and into the isolation words. have you to place your boots into a solution to disinfect them when you go in ant out. and certainly it's affecting the psychology of this region. it was supposed to be market day there today, but because the president asked people not to make close contact, that was canceled to a large degree. there's also a sense of not of panic, but certainly a weariness about this hospital, and the potential for this ebola virus. the outbreak started weeks ago but only recognized a few days ago, that it will spread from where i'm standing right now
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beyond western uganda. so the next few days are critical. >> thanks to david. now our fifth story. is penn state making promises it's not going to keep? the university faces millions of costs and damages as a result of the jerry sandusky scandal. more than 10 million in investigative and public relations costs and who knows how much in damages for the victims of jerry sandusky. the school recently issued a statement that it won't use money to pay any of those penalties, but does that promise add up. sarry has been covering this from day one. when you look through the numbers, what do you find? >> i think this could get higher than $100 million. here's why. beyond fine and the money they spent in crisis management, if
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you look at that number and multiply it over let's say five years, that amount of time, that amount of money, you're already at the $100 million mark, that doesn't include a $13 million loss in bowl revenue, potential lawsuits. let's take just a small chunk. there are ten victims that have had convictions. if you multiply that by the average pay out in the catholic church scandal, you get to a $20 million number automatically. we've got fines of potential loss of aid for students who go to penn state. you're looking at a long term several years. i think it could get well above $100 million. but really that's a mark that we're fast approaching. >> fast approaching. so it could get worse. how much money do they have? when they say we're not going to
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use tuition, we're not going to use tax money, are they going to be able to keep that promise. what's the hold that they have? >> they have a $1.8 billion endowment. but the promise is they're not going to use donation money, tuition money and taxpayer dollars. we really can't check that, because right to know laws, the open record laws in pennsylvania, this university isn't subject to them. they are actually immune from them. and interestingly enough, the reason, the big lobby for that immunity, was the former president who's now been accused by the internal investigation of penn state of covering this up. >> plus the endowment itself there's a lot of people who have given to that over the years who don't want a dollar of it going to this. >> potentially the university has promised that it won't. but when you look at the potential for the expenses to grow, at some point, when does their rainy day fund expire? >> you can't use taxpayer, you can't use tuition, you can't use donations. what else do you have? >> they're going to get to a
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point where the pots of money that they're pulling from now, when they run out, where does this go? and we don't know where that money was going before. so the money that is being spent on the scandal now, if that was going to certain educational needs before, how do we know that tuition dollars are not making up for that? or the endowment. >> thanks very much. sara. al qaeda has put a bounty on president obama's head. the same area over and over again? though all energy development comes with some risk, we're committed to safely and responsibly producing natural gas. it's not a dream. america's natural gas... putting us in control of our energy future, now.
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it wouldn't be a hump day without the camel report. so it's been reported that a somalian military group had a bounty of obama's head. it got a lot of media attention. a lot of people made jokes. after all, the average cost of a camel in somalia is about $700. which is a king's ransom there. ten camels for $7,000 is nothing exaerd to the almost $33 million that the american government has offered for information about al qaeda in somalia.
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this is a very serious story. because what people may not realize how valuable and crucial the camel is for africa. they were enlisted for battle by roman, spanish, english armies. and they were vital to the construction of canals and railroads because of their ability to carry thousands of pounds of weight. when we were in mali last week we saw how they make a difference. they were everywhere. they work really hard and they're used for transportation in farming. i love the desert, i love my camels, i love my life. a number of charities allow you to donate a camel to a village in need. thanks for watching. here's piers morgan tonight.
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i felt sorry for this girl. >> is michael phelps the greatest of all time? >> plus, the winner circles. greg louganis and carl lewis. >> you can't top the first olympics. >> this is a gold medal edition of "piers morgan tonight." good evening from london. the 2012 olympics have been rocked by a huge scandal tonight. eight players from three countries expelled for trying to lose their patches. some are accusing a chinese swimmer of doping.
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they charge they're not only wrong but racist. i know you as lord coh. >> thank you. >> you must be the most excited, relieved man in the world right now. it's all gone so smoothly. >> i was excited before it started. i'm now into that sort of, it's got to work. very, very grateful to hundreds of thousands of brits who have helped us get this far. you know what this area was like. this was desolate. we've now got a thriving community and sport kicked it all off. >> we got pride back in the country, which is great. some big stories developing today. one i'm very interested to get

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